anarchy symbols>?

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still going through these...

Postby adam_dragon » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:59 pm

(i'm not really an anarchist. it's too simplistic.)


technically the world may already be in a state of anarchy, because law is nothing but a strong suggestion, issued by authority, at threat of force, fine, and imprisonment, but it is not issued by someone with a leash on your neck who can scold you every other second. you are basically free to do what you want with your time. we behave because we want to +/-.
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Postby Kazuya » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:14 pm

adam_dragon wrote:(i'm not really an anarchist. it's too
simplistic.)

technically the world may already be in a state of anarchy, because law is
nothing but a strong suggestion, issued by authority, at threat of force, fine, and imprisonment, but it is not issued by someone with a leash on your neck who can scold you every other second. you are basically free to do what you want with your time. we behave because we want to +/-.


I don't think that you understand the concept of anarchy. I am an anarcho-socialist (socialist in the US american meaning of the word) myself. But when I read your posts, my first impression is, that you don't know the difference between Anomie and Anarchy. Both words are of greek origin with "a" meaning without and "Narchia" enforced ruler. While "Nomos" means law. In an anarchistic society the laws are not made by rulers or the government, but directly by the society. And they are more than just strong suggestions, they are law in their original meaning. In that way anarchy is similar to an extreme form of federalism.

Your concept of anarchy seems to me to be some sort of a "Tyler Durden Anarchy" derivation. But that's just a media invention without any ties to the intellectual work of actual anarchists.
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Postby adam_dragon » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:36 pm

I don't think that you understand the concept of anarchy...

In an anarchistic society the laws are not made by rulers or the government, but directly by the society. And they are more than just strong suggestions, they are law in their original meaning. In that way anarchy is similar to an extreme form of federalism.




"an⋅ar⋅chy
  /ˈænərki/ [an-er-kee]

–noun
1. a state of society without government or law.
2. political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy.
3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.
4. confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith. "


please focus your attention on #3. then get back to me.
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Postby Kazuya » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:28 pm

adam_dragon wrote:"an⋅ar⋅chy
  /ˈænərki/ [an-er-kee]

–noun
1. a state of society without government or law.
2. political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy.
3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.
4. confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith. "


please focus your attention on #3. then get back to me.

Maybe your lack of understanding is bigger than I thought. But I repeat: In an anarchistic society, there are laws. The laws are made by the society not by a ruler. Did you get that? When laws are proposed, the people who would be affected, vote on it. The emphasis in your 3. definition is on government, because a government is subset of the society that enforces laws on others. Is that hard to grasp? Not even Max Stirner denied the existence of laws and he advocated amorality.

How old are you by the way? Have you ever read a book about anarchistic concepts? (No, crappy dictionaries don't count and definition 1. 2. and 4. are the definitions of Anomie not Anarchy)

Have you ever read a book from Bakunin, Kropotkin, Stirner or Michael Alberts? I bet you didn't.
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Postby adam_dragon » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:04 pm

Maybe your lack of understanding is bigger than I thought. But I repeat: In an anarchistic society, there are laws. The laws are made by the society not by a ruler. Did you get that? When laws are proposed, the people who would be affected, vote on it.

...How old are you by the way? Have you ever read a book about anarchistic concepts? (No, crappy dictionaries don't count and definition 1. 2. and 4. are the definitions of Anomie not Anarchy)

Have you ever read a book from Bakunin, Kropotkin, Stirner or Michael Alberts? I bet you didn't.


please don't think i am dumbfounded by your message. i'm simply waiting for the right words to come to me before i respond to this nonsense. (i am easily irritated.)

-adam
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Postby adam_dragon » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:57 pm

Image
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follow up

Postby adam_dragon » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:29 pm

ok, i'm through having my fit. now, please let me ask you a question. what is an example of a law that a group of anarchists might establish?

rather than reviewing my age and personal education we could discuss the issue of anarchism. (possibly anarchy and anarchism are two distinct animals.)

to indirectly answer your questions: i'm old enough to have been to college and then to have read 100's of books, including emma goldman and other anarchists (some from your list), and especially volumes of classic non -political philosophy, but i chose in the end to reserve 'anarchy' as a place where i could put my own political and philosophical ideas where no one could challenge them outright with established ideology. but why keep my head in the sand?

so what sort of laws might we establish? no murdering? no stealing? what about community and societal services? would there be taxes? a government? any kind of infrastructure at all, or could we develop a world where everyone can be self sufficient using individual technology, like no-brain solar power kits and large easy to assemble technology blocks?

i have many visions of cooperation, but i guess in an anarchist society, the bottom line is that we want to avoid an armed humanity who is constantly at war with itself.

is that where the anarchist rule of law comes in? i was hoping for a voluntary shift toward cooperation along the lines of a spiritual awakening, but honestly, removing the 'training wheels' of governmental rule does seem impossible at this time. there would be violence, and stupidity would probably reign supreme once more.

well i'm late for where i'm supposed to be but have been wanting to add something more than the photo.

thanks,
adam
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Postby adam_dragon » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:08 am

hello?
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Postby buttsie » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:24 am

It would seem its come full circle





Planet-Ex wrote:Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:20 am
Nice you keep this thread alive ;P. I was sure it died a while ago.


adam_dragon:Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:12 am
i'm planning to answer this thread soon. i forgot about it.
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Postby Kazuya » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:13 am

adam_dragon wrote:ok, i'm through having my fit. now, please let me ask you a question. what is an example of a law that a group of anarchists might establish?
I don't have to think long about that, I just take an example from history (Spain 1936):

- the collectivisation of farmland by the anarcho-syndicalists of the CNT

adam_dragon wrote:rather than reviewing my age and personal education we could discuss the issue of anarchism. (possibly anarchy and anarchism are two distinct animals.)

Okay, I think I start with a quote from Emma Goldman about Anarchism. I disagree with her on some points, especially about the connection between Anarchy and Communism. Syndicalism for example allows private property. But never the less:

Anarchism, then, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. Anarchism stands for a social order based on the free grouping of individuals for the purpose of producing real social wealth; an order that will guarantee to every human being free access to the earth and full enjoyment of the necessities of life, according to individual desires, tastes, and inclinations.


adam_dragon wrote:to indirectly answer your questions: i'm old enough to have been to college and then to have read 100's of books, including emma goldman and other anarchists (some from your list), and especially volumes of classic non -political philosophy, but i chose in the end to reserve 'anarchy' as a place where i could put my own political and philosophical ideas where no one could challenge them outright with established ideology. but why keep my head in the sand?

Fine then, it is just that I find it very hard to believe that actually read Emma Goldman for example.

adam_dragon wrote:so what sort of laws might we establish? no murdering? no stealing? what about community and societal services? would there be taxes? a government? any kind of infrastructure at all, or could we develop a world where everyone can be self sufficient using individual technology, like no-brain solar power kits and large easy to assemble technology blocks?
A community can basicly establish any law they like. The important thing is that the community has to consist of individuals who voluntarily joined that community. Or if the rules are changed, that everyone is free to leave. This is the cornerstone of an anarchistic society.

adam_dragon wrote:is that where the anarchist rule of law comes in? i was hoping for a voluntary shift toward cooperation along the lines of a spiritual awakening, but honestly, removing the 'training wheels' of governmental rule does seem impossible at this time. there would be violence, and stupidity would probably reign supreme once more.


"Yet the opposition of the uneducated to Anarchism deserves the same consideration as that of the intelligent man. What, then, are the objections? First, Anarchism is impractical, though a beautiful ideal. Second, Anarchism stands for violence and destruction, hence it must be repudiated as vile and dangerous. Both the intelligent man and the ignorant mass judge not from a thorough knowledge of the subject, but either from hearsay or false interpretation." -Emma Goldman
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Postby adam_dragon » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:22 am

"order derived through submission and maintained by terror is not much of a safe guaranty; yet that is the only 'order' that governments have ever maintained. true social harmony grows naturally out of solidarity of interests. in a society where those who always work never have anything, while those who never work enjoy everything, solidarity of interests is nonexistent; hence social harmony is but a myth. the only way organized authority meets this grave situation is by extending still greater privileges to those who have already monopolized the earth, and by still further enslaving the disinherited masses. thus the entire arsenal of government--laws, police, soldiers, the courts, legislatures, prisons,-- is strenuously engaged in 'harmonizing' the most antagonistic elements in society." -emma goldman, 'anarchism', 1917.

tv and consumerism weren't yet invented, (which are both brilliant submission tools).

i think the fine arts help transcend the solidarity/harmony problem, but they still don't include or appeal to everyone.
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Postby adam_dragon » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:10 pm

I don't think that you understand the concept of anarchy...In an anarchistic society the laws are not made by rulers or the government, but directly by the society. And they are more than just strong suggestions, they are law in their original meaning. In that way anarchy is similar to an extreme form of federalism.

Your concept of anarchy seems to me to be some sort of a "Tyler Durden Anarchy" derivation. But that's just a media invention without any ties to the intellectual work of actual anarchists.



i was waiting until i had access to my books before i responded directly to this. i could probably quote your next message to me as well.

here are two quotes from emma goldman's "anarchism":

"anarchism therefore stands for direct action, the open defiance of, and resistance to, all laws and restrictions, economic, social, and moral. but defiance and resistance are illegal. therein lies the salvation of man. everything illegal necessitates integrity, self-reliance, and courage. in short, it calls for free, independent spirits, for 'men who are men, and who have a bone in their backs which you cannot pass your hand through.'"

....

"direct action against the authority in the shop, direct action against the authority of the law, direct action against the invasive, meddlesome authority of our moral code, is the logical consistent method of anarchism."


if you made your laws, i would break them.


and finally, this is from her essay, "minorities versus majorities":

"the individual educator imbued with honesty of purpose, the artist or writer of original ideas, the independent scientist or explorer, the non-compromising pioneers of social changes are daily pushed to the wall by men whose learning and creative ability have become decrepit with age."
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Postby adam_dragon » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:16 pm

i'm sorry. these comments are the result of a bad mood i can't seem to shake. i'm generally more of an idealist than this.
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Postby adam_dragon » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:04 pm

now that writing a book is finished, i'm podcasting:

http://awdragon.podbean.com/
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